Our guest this week on the Art of the Song Coffee Break is Nancy Ann Stubbs, a “Big Leap” Coach, who works with musicians (and in fact will be there offering her services at Folk Alliance this year!).
Katie: I am talking today with Nancy Ann Stubbs, who is actually a Standing ‘O’ fan member supporting the site, but she describes herself as a Big Leap Coach, and she does all kinds of very fascinating coaching and working actually specifically with musicians along with a lot of other folks, but we’re just going to delve into her process a little bit today. Nancy, welcome, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
Nancy: Thank you, Katie. It’s my pleasure to be here.
Katie: Let’s just dive in with a little description of what it means to be a Big Leap Coach.
Nancy: Well, I’m a Body-Centered Coach and the Big Leap reference comes from one of my mentors who wrote a great book called “The Big Leap”. What that’s about is taking the big leap into working in your genius. So genius qualities, your genius abilities are innate to you, to each one of us and, as a Big Leap Coach, what I do is I help people not just identify their genius qualities, but also make a deep commitment to living their life and working from within those qualities and putting that work out into the world. So I help people make a big leap from whatever it is they’re doing to keep themselves playing small to get them to play big.
Katie: You know what that made me think of, funny enough, is that we talk a lot on these shows about the idea of the muse and I know that, sometimes, the muse can also be referred to as a genius. So, would you say that this genius, is it wholly internal or is there an external force too that you believe comes into play here?
Nancy: That’s a great question. I’ve always thought of genius qualities as something that’s intrinsic to each one of us. It’s something that we come in with and if we’re lucky enough to identify and figure it out along our path of our life and then take action along the lines of our genius, we’re living a pretty good life. The external influences I think that comes from, at least in my life and my experience, the external influences in terms of my mentors and coaches I’ve worked with, they really help to uncover my genius. Helped me discover that and also have helped light or form a path so that committed to myself to live from my genius. To do the work that I am here to do. So I’m talking about a couple of different things. Talking about skill level as well as just intrinsically, what am I here to do and what is it that I bring to life? When I walk into the room, what walks in with me? The room could literally be a room when I walk in the room and I’m engaging with people and it’s also when I showed up here. What am I meant to do in this lifetime? Does that answer the question?
Katie: It does. It actually brings up more questions and I love it. I loved on your website as I was reading through your emphasis on us all actually already being whole and not being broken because I hear this echoed so much in the music community a lot of times, it’s like, “Oh, I have this brokenness inside me that I’m reflecting out to the world” and I think it’s interesting to me that you seem to be, in this discussion here, you seem to be going back to that idea that those abilities are already within us so what you do, if I’m understanding, is you’re essentially acting as a guide to find what’s already in you, correct?
Nancy: Yes. It’s my greatest joy. It’s my greatest opportunity. I can already feel myself relaxing as I hear you reflect back to me what it is I put out in the world on my own website. If I’m able to reflect back to somebody their wholeness, I’ve done my job. That’s what I’m here for.
Katie: And what drew you to do this? How did you get into this? I’m so curious.
Nancy: Feedback has been given to me that I’ve done this most of my life. In 2000, a coworker of mine, I was working in Human Resources, and a coworker of mine called up very excited and he said, “I read this article. There’s a new profession out there and, as I read the article, and as they described it, I realized you already do that. That this is you. And it’s called coaching.” At the time, I had just accepted a job to start a Human Resources department from scratch. I was in the HR profession. I was also very tied to having a regular paycheck and I had a big house that I was living in. I don’t think I was living in it by myself just yet. Six months later I was. Anyway, I was pretty tied to the normal way of life and job and whatnot and so I set it aside and didn’t think about it for a couple more years. Then, in 2003, I decided to quit that job and I sold my home and decided I wanted to be my own boss. In between, from 2000 to 2003, in between that time, so ’01 and ’02, I had gone and gotten some coaching certification done, and I was part of a two year leadership and transformation program through an organization in California and that’s what really helped fuel my decision to become my own company, my own boss, and to help others. So I’m going thirteen and a half years now self-employed as a coach and a consultant.
Nancy: Thank you.
Katie: As I’m listening to you, I’m thinking there’s so many musicians, a lot of the people that listen are either musicians or music-lovers or any creative-type people, but there’s so many of those who have a similar sort of big leap from the comfort of the day-to-day job and a regular paycheck and then they have to kind of go out on their own and pursue their passion in what’s seen as a sort of unconventional way, how did you deal with some of those fears in that transition?
Nancy: I had a great set of tools, I guess, skills that I developed from my mentors using breath and movement and, as trite as this might sound, love. So the three biggies are breath, movement, and love. There’s a toolkit that goes along with all of that that I had learned and so when I would feel scared I would return to my breath. Literally. I would take four to six deep, connected breaths and start to shut off the autonomic system in my body that was going into fear response. Really basic simplistic needs of coming back home to me, to my body. So do that. I would also reach out to my fellow coaches and mentors and get some feedback and have them reflect back to me what they were hearing me say and help me discover for myself what was really underneath my fear. What was really going on for me? So, community, man, community really helped.
Katie: It’s so funny. That’s exactly what I just wrote down on my paper. I was like, “Oh, ok, so sense of community is really pivotal”. A quick digression here too, I love the folk community which is what we’re involved in mostly here and we’re going to Folk Alliance in a month here and I actually read on your site that you’ve been to Folk Alliance before too. So you’re aware of that community as well.
Nancy: I am, and just to piggyback on what you’re talking about, this will be my fourth year at Folk Alliance. I look forward to meeting you in person. I’ll be there.
Katie: Oh my gosh, likewise. Ok, I have a couple quick digressions, but let’s stay on this for a moment. So you say you love folk music, Americana music, roots and singer/songwriters and that you’ve actually had experience in that industry as well. You’ve actually toured and done some management. Talk to me about how you got involved in the music realm.
Nancy: You bet. Depends on how far back you want to go. When I was in second grade and begging for piano lessons, and finally got into piano lessons in fourth grade, trombone in fifth grade and I was a music major my freshman year in school in college. I toured with people when I was 18. So I’ve been on big stages and small stages, but in an ensemble of 120 people. That type of thing. We can talk that background, but that’s ancient history.
Katie: Just out of curiosity, did you write too? Do you still write? Is that something that helps you express yourself?
Nancy: I don’t write. I’ve never written songs. No, I play music that’s on a sheet in front of me. That’s it. And I’m not an active musician in any way, shape, or form. I do not want to mislead anyone into thinking I can do anything more than pick out the melody on my right hand on a piano.
Katie: But you have a love for it and a draw for it, which is a beautiful thing in this world.
Nancy: Absolutely. My parents were gifted and I’m going to put that in air quotes, my parents were “gifted”. An upright piano that was sky blue in color that had a tuning sticker from 1926 on the inside and we all agreed, pretty much, that was the last time it had been tuned. Then that was the impetus for me to get piano lessons on a piano that was missing keys and not even hitting tones. It was awful. And that’s what I learned on.
Katie: It’s so funny. There’s a certain romance to that though. You’ve got to love it so much that you’re ok with the missing keys on this beautiful broken sky blue piano. What a beautiful image.
Nancy: Yes, completely. When I think about it, and it doesn’t come to mind very often, but it just did, and when I think about it, you could play middle C or A, you could pick any note, I wouldn’t be able to tell you what note you were playing, because my ear was trained to a completely out of tune piano as a kid. It’s pretty crazy. At any rate, I really digress there, but in more recent history, Katie, a couple of years ago, eight years ago maybe, I started going to house concerts pretty regularly. I lived in Nederland, Colorado for eleven and a half years and we had a great house concert venue there. I would go to house concerts and I would meet musicians and one of those musicians and I, we were having a conversation somewhere along the line, about four or five years ago, something like that, and one thing led to another and I made a couple of phone calls looking for a particular resource for him and that put me in connection with a singer/songwriter from Boulder. Her name is Rebecca Folsom and so, again, another round and one thing led to another and I started helping Rebecca with her bookings. I’ve never been a booking agent, but I started helping her with her bookings and started helping her with some management and along the way I was coaching her as well and then I met other musicians. That’s why I went to Folk Alliance. I went to Folk Alliance to support Rebecca. Not from a coaching perspective, but just to be part of her team and to participate in that really amazing community. We’ve been to SWRFA and I’ve been to Far West with her as well. This year, I’m going on my own just representing myself as a coach and a consultant and a music-lover. I should also say too, to be fair, in 2004, I did work for a celebrity singer/songwriter and I did go on tour for three months. Just a very short stint, but I had been hired to be his coach and also was performing road manager and personal assistant duties while we were out on the road. So been on the nice swanky tour bus with the band and that was a big eye-opener in that I didn’t know much about popular music at all. I love Bruce Springsteen. I have my favorites and, at the time, I got a real education and I just kept going with it. But I really stick to what I love, which is folk, roots, and Americana now.
Katie: I’m curious, what are some of the patterns and some of the struggles that you see in the folk music community when artists are coming into their own? Do you see patterns that people come up against again and again?
Nancy: When musicians chat with me, and I’ve offered some coaching, some short segments of coaching, anywhere from fifteen minutes to an hour at various conferences and also just in conversation, the thing that I hear the most, the question I guess or statements, is around believing in themselves and valuing themselves. So it can be valuing themselves from the perspective of what they’re putting out in the world, is there an audience for it? Is what they’re doing worthwhile and should they keep doing it? I hear words like “It’s a struggle”, wondering how they can make a living doing what they love. Then, also, how do they claim their value financially? So those are the things that I’ve talked to and heard musicians share with me. Then, also, at what age do they stop doing this and get a real job? So, a 30 year old who wants to really do well with his or her passion, or a 45 year old or a 55 year old, wondering when are they going to hit it? When will they actually make it? So there’s this striving to ‘make it’ and what I listen to and remember for myself, is what if we’re doing exactly what we’re supposed to be doing? And how to align with a bigger intention? But we could double click on that and go really far with that one. I’ll toss the ball back to you there.
Katie: When you’re coaching, do you then start with defining your intention as a person instead of starting with ‘Oh I’m too old to do this’ or ‘I’m too poor to do this’, is that Step #1 for you?
Nancy: You know, I don’t approach coaching anyone with a prescribed set of steps. Every conversation is different. One of the things that I so love about the particular coaching methodology that I use, as well as just who I am as a person, is that I’m more interested in going with what’s showing up. If I’m having a conversation in a hallway at Folk Alliance, for example, and it’s just something that I’ve stumbled across with this particular individual, whoever it is I’m talking to, I’m really curious about what’s up for them in that moment and that’s what we play with and that’s where we go. I have been known to have someone stand with me and I have walked them through certain activities to really get them present and in their body to shift whatever the thing is that they’re working with in that moment. Whatever’s right in front of them and to actually do it in a five minute segment in a hallway at Folk Alliance, and to have them come out of that five minute conversation with a new tool. So, again, I don’t come at anything, any coaching client, whether it’s a CEO of a company, whether it’s a Human Resources manager or another consultant, I’ve worked with a bunch of therapists who have come and worked with me as their coach, and musicians. I don’t have a cookie-cutter approach to any of them. That’s what’s exciting for me. It’s just totally juicy. Totally amps up my day if I get to have a conversation that’s all about the improv of the moment with someone.
Katie: Say someone was listening to this podcast and they wanted at home to just cultivate their own awareness of where they were, right in that moment, and get more present, would you have an exercise you could tell them to do?
Nancy: I would. And again, with everyone, it’s going to be a little bit different, but I’m going to give you one right now that is super reliable. And I would invite you to do it too, Katie if you want to from wherever you’re sitting or standing.
Katie: That sounds great. I’m down for this.
Nancy: Ok, great, so what I’m going to encourage you to do is I imagine you might be sitting down right now and if anybody is listening to this, just notice if you’re sitting or if you’re standing and I invite you to bring your attention to your breath. So, nice deep breath in and I invite you to breathe in and out through your nose, not through your mouth, but in and out through your nose. Nice big in-breath. If you can get it to four counts that’s great, and at four counts out. Not holding your breath in-between, but nice long breath in and a long breath out. And feel your feet on the floor. Just notice contact point of the souls of your feet. Your toes. Your heels. Maybe even give a few little bounces to your heels. Just little bounce on your heels. And continue those nice, deep breaths in and out. If you’re sitting, come forward on your chair so your back isn’t touching the back of the chair, but come forward on your chair. The ideal is to have your sits bones toward the front of the chair. Now your back can be nice and straight and you can just bring a little bit of movement into your body. Could be a little wiggle. Little sway. While giving again attention to your breath. The next step, and this will be our final step for this demonstration, is to start at the top of your head and do a scan. Do a body scan. So some people like to imagine melting wax. Some people like to imagine water pouring over them nice and slow. Other people just imagine they’re in a CAT scan kind of thing. Just do a scan down your body, down your head, your face, your neck, your shoulders. Down your arms, your torso, your hips, your thighs, you knees your calves. Notice any sensations. Just notice anything. Suspend any story that you have about right or wrong, whether it’s a good sensation or a bad sensation, but just notice the sensation. So do that scan and just notice it. And what I do then, Katie, with my clients is, depending on what the topic is that we’re talking about that we’re discussing, is that I’ll have them hold the thought of the particular challenge or topic and then do this scan and then we’ll then use whatever the sensations are that they notice, we’ll explore those sensations a little bit more thoroughly, a little bit more deeply, and use our sensitive awareness to just be with the physical sensations and notice if there are any words that come up with those sensations, if there are any sounds or color that they internally can visualize, and then we’ll use that as well as part of the information to explore. We can be off and running for five minutes or an hour and a half on just that. But when we pay attention to that internal experience and especially to what’s real and happening in the moment, which is our body sensations, there’s a whole world that can open up from us to learn from. When we’re talking about how somebody values themself or their work, this can be key to shifting that story and that narrative. It sounds simple and it sounds like it could be possibly too easy, and it really is.
Katie: Oh that’s fantastic. First of all, thank you for that exercise that was really beautiful to be able to be able to experience that in the moment. I love that idea. Body intelligence is what you do? The approach that you take?
Nancy: Yes, Body Intelligence. One of my mentors calls it Body Brain. We’re very tied in and keyed up with our big brain, the brain in our head, and we often will forget anything that’s happening below our chin. I know I was that for all of my life up until about fifteen years ago. Actually, to be fair to myself, as soon as I said fifteen years ago, my body just did a little alignment wiggle and went, “Uh, no”. I was still pretty much committed to my big brain until about 2004/2005 is when I really started shifting and trusting my body sensations as my body wisdom. I like to call it body wisdom or body intelligence. BQ. BQ is another way of saying body intelligence.
Katie: That’s funny. What an interesting experience to let your body guide you in where you’re at and what you’re feeling. I think that a lot of us, especially if you’re an artist and you’re struggling, I think a lot of times we struggle with control issues too, so to let your body take the lead and not try to direct it with your brain, I would imagine is a challenge that you run into frequently.
Nancy: I have run into it with musicians and I’m so glad that you brought that up. And other performers as well. Ten years ago or so I would say I had a performer, not a musician, but somebody who did stage performances as well as small group performances, and he came to me with a question and with a problem. What he considered a problem of ‘Hey, I want to have a different experience here that when I approach small groups to do my thing, to do my work, I notice that I tend to steer away from them. I noticed that I actually am not, I should be able to approach them, but I noticed that I’d rather go away rather than get closer.” So we did an activity, at a big workshop training space that I was working out of, and so I sat on a balance ball in the middle of the room and we played this game of closer to/farther away where I would have him, without words, come to closer to me until he felt a dissonance in his body and then he would move away from me until he felt a dissonance in his body. So he would go further away and then come closer. And the meantime, I would just always be available for eye contact and he could choose to be in eye contact with me or not. Through this activity, I watched his breath while he would get closer to me and watch, what was he doing with his breath? And what I found out was he was holding his breath on the approach. So we did a simple thing and had him change up his breathing and I had him exhale. I said, “Let’s just experiment. Let’s just play with this.” Had him experiment with that so on his approach, I had him exhale and he would get closer to me. He could get to within 18 inches of me instead of staying three feet away. I used that same activity with musicians around how to approach talking about money, about negotiations. How to approach the microphone. So when you’re coming out on stage, exhale as you come up to the microphone so that you have a moment to inhale and take in the audience. Take in the space where you’re at.
Nancy: Yeah really, it’s that simple.
Katie: Yeah, I just was thinking, ‘Whoa, that feels like that would be a much better approach’. That’s so funny.
Nancy: Yeah. So it’s the remembering to exhale piece. I know that’s the name of a movie and all that but it truly is. If we remember to exhale, the inhale will take care of itself and what ends up happening is when we’re faced with a tough conversation, whether it’s with our partner or a person who holds the purse for a gig we’re about to do. Regardless of who it is, we tend to approach those more challenging conversations with a held breath.
Katie: Bracing for the impact.
Nancy: Yes, bracing. That’s really great. I’m so glad you mentioned that. Bracing for the impact. So there’s that great movie Crash, one of my favorite movies ever, because it focuses on what if we weren’t crashing into one another. We all just want to connect and what if we didn’t use crashing into one another as the means to make that happen? What if we actually went with the energy? What if we went with our breath? What if we breathed into the more challenging conversations instead of braced against them?
Katie: Well then it also seems like it lends to letting others in the conversation instead of putting up those battelguards. So that’s really fascinating, because I liked that sentiment that you just said of taking in and breathing in the audience instead of just exhaling them out physically with our breath. It’s so interesting that you can just do that and change your mentality by changing the way that your body reacts in that moment.
Nancy: Yes, and I can tell you something from my personal experience, and that is there was a period of time in the mid-90’s where my job title was actually “Facilitator”. I worked American Express and I was a professional meeting facilitator for them and I traveled to different places and different countries and I would facilitate meetings between project teams and executives and I had a lot of very specialized facilitation training in order to do that job. I had also been a trainer and a facilitator for about a decade prior to that even. When I started studying with my mentor, her name is Catherine Hendrix of the Hendrix Institute, when I started doing some training with her, she put a lot of emphasis on facilitating from the wholeness of the room. From seeing everybody in the room as whole. Start from wholeness. Another key piece that really made an impact as to how I facilitate today was to embrace, what she actually calls the embrace, so that before you get started, when you come out to the front of the room to actually say something unarguable about the space that we’re in, so that everybody can look around and go ‘Oh yeah’ and you’re basically saying something that’s unarguable. That nobody can argue with, like, “What a beautiful place we’re in”, which is also a value judgment, but you could also say, ‘What a large auditorium this is’ or ‘The sun is shining through the windows’ or ‘Look at those lights’. Where you’re basically directing everybody’s attention to something and now everybody is getting in sync. So part of that approaching the microphone and exhaling is the being with the space. Giving yourself an opportunity to acknowledge what is unarguable and what is in the space. What is happening in that moment? Which is a presencing technique.
Katie: What great advice. I’m going to do that next time I step up to the mic.
Nancy: Wonderful, let me know how it goes. I would welcome a call from you on that.
Katie: It’s fantastic. It’s so interesting. One of the things I’m curious about too is that going back a little bit, you were saying about musicians, when it comes to talking about finances or demanding their value in that manner, that they have that same sort of breathe in, brace for impact sort of reaction. What would your advice be to people who are struggling with the music industry as a whole and dealing with external forces where their payments are dwindling because of the streaming services? How would they deal with that sort of stress and dealing with that at large not having one entity to place it on?
Nancy: Great question. I think that’s the million dollar question for everybody. You know, I noticed as you asked me that question, I’m holding my breath right there. So that’s something unarguable that’s happening because I wish I had that answer. Man, that would be the genie in the bottle. That’d be just awesome to have that answer. What I can tell you, is I focus again, I encourage the individual to come back to identifying what is it about money for them that scares them so to really unearth or excavate any story they have about money first. So, to really explore, what are the stories? What’s their particular narrative around money before going into any negotiations about it? Because their narrative about money is going to color those negotiations. So I’m finally at a point in my life, and I’m going to put a big emphasis under this word, “Finally”, I am at a point in my life where I am unapologetic about my fees. I’m unapologetic about what I charge. I really feel confident in the value that I add to the lives of people around me and, if I’m getting paid, great, and if I’m not getting paid, I’m still adding value. So I’m really clear, finally, again, underline, underline, underline, I’m clear about my value. I don’t doubt my value. And I have divorced myself….hmm that’s not a great word, that’s actually not the word I want to use. I just realized that my whole body just clenched when I said the word ‘divorced myself’. I’ve faced and accepted, that’s really more the reflection here, that I’ve faced and accepted my family of origin’s stories around money as well as my Midwest upbringing and stories about money from that too in the great context and have adopted and created my own story and the value that I have. So, for musicians, coming back to your question, I really would encourage each person, whether that requires them to do some journaling, meditation, movement, just something to deepen their understanding of those underlying currents first and foremost and recognize what stories do they have that money is bad versus good or money has any value other than the value that they assign to it and to really play with that. I don’t know if that answers your question.
Katie: It does. Actually, it brings up a really interesting point for me. So, I was thinking as you were talking here, that it seems like one of the keys to dealing with these outside stressors with money and things that you can’t control that are happening in the industry, and I’m going to generalize here, just because I think it could be useful, but all the stresses that we have in politics right now and social changes in this country, all the things that we all get stressed about because we can’t control. It seems like part of the key to dealing with that you’re saying is to kind of bring it back to self-awareness and say, ‘Ok, what are my stories around everything that’s going on right now’ and that’ll help you move forward, it seems like?
Nancy: It helps. I think what it does is it’s the great equalizer. From then, that place, somebody can move forward. So you brought up something, I really love that you brought it up, that there’s so much out there that we can’t control. That’s a key awareness to acknowledge and face all the things that we can’t control. When I work with clients, that’s one of the things that we work with that we play with and it’s called ‘Sorting the files’ (this is an actual activity) and ‘sorting the files’ is basically looking at everything around us and the actions and the choices and behaviors and feelings and thoughts of ourselves as well as others and putting them in one of two files: the file of what we can control, and the file of what we can’t control. I’m going to give you the shortcut here. The things we can control are our choices, our own choices, and the actions that flow from those choices. That’s it. Our choices and actions. I can’t control my feelings. I can’t control my thoughts. My heartbeat just goes on by itself. So I can’t control that. I can’t control your thoughts, your feelings, your stories, and your actions. I can’t control what’s going on in Congress right now. I can’t control what’s happening on the other side of the planet right now. I can’t control any of that, but my choices and my actions, if I can use my feelings and my thoughts to inform my choices and actions, that’s where I can become truly powerful within myself. So that’s a key piece, I think, to sanity and to understanding if I am a musician and I want to play a particular gig in a particular state at a particular venue, what are the choices that I need to make and what are the actions that I need to take in order to get there? And it might be cultivating a new way of playing or cultivating a new set of songs in order to get the attention of that particular venue. So wishful thinking is great and we still need to put one foot in front of the other and look at what consciousness do I need to be in and do I need to occupy on a day to day basis through my choices and actions in order to get to the goal that I wonder. What consciousness do I need to be? And then, from that, what do I need to do?
Katie: Boy, that’s beautiful. You know, I’m curious because you had mentioned before the importance of having community, but it seems like it’s also very important to have that sense of having yourself as a touchstone and really knowing your stories and where you’re coming from and what you can control and what you can’t control, what would you describe is a healthy community to support your own self-exploration? Because I think a lot of people, especially in the arts, can sometimes get involved in communities that can be detrimental as well to that self-exploration. What would you say to look for in a community that enhances that journey?
Nancy: I just noticed that on impulse I had put my hands on my chest, my upper chest, my heart region if you will. Thank you, that’s a brilliant question. Community, I think, is such a key part. What I do, I go where I’m received. Where the wholeness of me is received. I engage with people who are also similarly engaged with their own life, their own exploration. I have friends all over the world. I was in an Up With People group. 107 out of 120 of us are still connected. It’s pretty amazing over all these years. Then I have lots of friends from all sorts of other activities that I’ve done throughout my life and I’m grateful for all of that. There’s a particular group of people that I know I can turn to in my most vulnerable state and be received. There’s absolutely zero advice giving in this group. Instead, I feel heard and I feel seen and I can be messy. I don’t have to be packaged in any way. It took a while to find that community but finally I found them so I think any advice that I could give (just as I say ‘and there’s no advice given!’), but in this particular situation, since you’ve asked for advice….
Katie: That was good.
Nancy: Yeah that was pretty good. It was kind of like little ‘Hall of Mirrors’ moment. Find those who truly, when you’re around them, you can melt. You can be met where there isn’t a sense of right/wrong/better/worse but, instead, you have your band of allies. This is really key intention. I was just working with somebody this morning on this and yesterday, as a matter of fact, to institute a state of wonder and curiosity within yourself. “Oh I wonder how I could see this person as my ally”. So, for example, and I remember doing this with a particular musician friend, when negotiating or when working with somebody and you’ve got a little bit of tussle going on, little bit of a tug-of-war going on, you can go rigid. And you can go into fight mode. That’s what our world is based on, quite frankly, is going into what’s called a drama triangle of being a villain, a victim, and a hero. That doesn’t get us very far. What really does actually change the paradigm is to see one another as allies and to shift from, I see you as somebody that I can’t trust or I don’t know if I can trust you, start from, “Wow, I wonder how we could be allies in this? I wonder, how could we co-create something that’s mutually beneficial here?” There’s a whole other set of things that go along with that. Conscious listening and really hearing the other person for where they’re coming from, but a short-cut is to actually say the words out loud, “Hmm, I wonder how I could see this person as my ally?” And also, I wonder how I could be my own ally? I hope that makes sense.
Katie: It does. And what beautiful advice so thank you for your non-advice advice. I appreciate it. I’m sure our listeners do too. Actually, Nancy, we’re about out of time here but, before we go, can you just tell our listeners where they can find you and a little bit about your services?
Nancy: I’d be delighted. Thank you. Thanks for asking. I can be found on my website and it is www.nancyannstubbs.com and you can reach out to me there through email. That’s the best route and I’ll be at Folk Alliance so please come find me at Folk Alliance. I’m super excited.
Katie: Absolutely. And you’re also offering a free 20 minute consultation for initial people coming in, correct?
Nancy: Yes, absolutely, and it tends to be 20-30 minutes. And it’s not free coaching per say, it’s a free consultation. It’s to basically get a sense of what is showing up for the individual. What’s going on for you, what is it that you want to shift? What do you want to create a quantum change, a quantum shift in your life about? It can be relationships, it can be career, it can be just having a sounding board. I’m not going to charge for that. I never charge for that. That’s just basically getting a sense of what’s going on for you and how I might be able to support you. Here’s the cool thing, Katie, is that I’ve got a network of 100 people or more strong around the world of people that I know who do similar coaching to what I do. Some of them are therapists, some of them are coaches with coaching certifications, and if I’m not the right fit, I happily refer people to this network. So I’m not just a one-stop shop. I definitely can connect people to the right person if I’m not it. Hopefully I’m it and if I’m not, I’m not. It’s totally cool. I love referring people to others so that everybody gets their needs met.
Katie: Wonderful. Well, Nancy Ann Stubbs, thank you so much for talking with me today.
Nancy: Thank you, Katie. It has been a pleasure to talk and laugh with you so thank you.